News DetailVery strong cap in MN -- Supercells still possible today
Posted At: August 13, 2007 @ 11:59 AM
Posted By: Reed Timmer
Related Categories: General
After analyzing the 4km WRF precip forecast last night, we decided that the chase event today in Minnesota had far too many negative factors to make the 15 hour drive to our target area. Specifically, here are the limiting factors for tornadoes we considered:
1. WRF and GFS did not forecast precip until after 00z, and the 4 km WRF indicated a large MCS would form at around 8:00 pm. This indicates that the convection would be forced by the strengthening LLJ and would likely be elevated.
2. Convective temperatures on most soundings were >100F, and to attain this convective temperature the T/dewpoint spreads would be very high, and conducive to quick transitions to outflow dominance.
3. 700 mb trough moves east and north of the instability axis by peak heating.
4. In recent forecasts, the warm front has become oriented more north-south, and thus it would be more difficult for a storm to root on the boundary.
Here are some selected RUC forecast panels confirming the above:
1. WRF and GFS did not forecast precip until after 00z, and the 4 km WRF indicated a large MCS would form at around 8:00 pm. This indicates that the convection would be forced by the strengthening LLJ and would likely be elevated.
2. Convective temperatures on most soundings were >100F, and to attain this convective temperature the T/dewpoint spreads would be very high, and conducive to quick transitions to outflow dominance.
3. 700 mb trough moves east and north of the instability axis by peak heating.
4. In recent forecasts, the warm front has become oriented more north-south, and thus it would be more difficult for a storm to root on the boundary.
Here are some selected RUC forecast panels confirming the above:
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Hey Reed/Joel/OKC b-ball fans...
The ownership group has come out and finally stated the plan was to move the Sonics to OKC all along. Sports radio is on fire here. Yr chances of getting a team are suddenly looking better today!
Very ominous looking up here in Winnipeg already. Haven't looked at the shear values for up here yet but the clouds are already having some slight rotation and there isn't even a storm here yet. EC's forecasting strong t-storms late afternoon through overnight.. hopefully we get something good!
Whats up Tim lol... Could you give me the EC sight??
Hey Reed, your wrong :) j/k
Check this out... we may not have to wait until 8pm. New MD (watch likely)
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/products/md/md1744.html
Looks like I will only have to step outside to catch the action tonight. More then likely will track right and right on down towards me.
I`m ready and waiting.
Zack if u havent already got it.
http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/canada_e.html
thx Matt..lol.
Wow you can definitally tell where the warm front is, current dew point in Minneapolis is 56, yet just 40-50 miles to the south west in New Ulm, Redwood Falls, Willmar area it is already at 70. I also noticed that the wind speed at the surface is increasing out of the SSE very noticeably in the last hour.
Yep, currently 86.2F at 1:23pm with a dewpoint of 75 here in New Ulm. Little muggy if you ask me. More fuel for the storms to work with.
Is it my imagination or is that stuff in western ND moving more east than southeast?
http://i12.tinypic.com/52an0ba.jpg
I just downloaded that grlevel3 and I can see why everyone uses it now. Not sure how accurate things are, but it sure looks pretty.
Joe: Looks due east to me
Yes Joe they do look like they are heading more east, or ese. It could also be that the southern most convection is dissipating because it is heading into a more capped enviorment (educated guess). Reading the SPC MD it sounds like they may issue a Tor watch for Minneapolis Westward this afternoon.
Based on what Reed said, it sounds like we have quite a few more hours yet before anything exciting happens, if it happens..
Just uploaded a clip I filmed a couple years ago that produced a tornado near Searles,MN that the Twister Sisters had drop in front of them. I was filming this from New Ulm in parking lot. I compressed the video down from 5mn to just about 58sec.
I would not expect any storms around here till after 7pm.
Will the heat EVER end!!!???!!!
...HOT AND DRY WEATHER TO PERSIST THROUGH THE WEEK...
AFTERNOON HIGH TEMPERATURES RANGING FROM THE UPPER 90S TO NEAR 103
ARE EXPECTED TO PERSIST THROUGH THE UPCOMING WEEK. THE HOT
TEMPERATURES COMBINED WITH MODERATE HUMIDITIES WILL RESULT IN HEAT
INDEX VALUES GENERALLY BETWEEN 100 AND 105...ESPECIALLY NEAR AND
EAST OF THE INTERSTATE-35 CORRIDOR. MEANWHILE...THE DRY WEATHER WILL
ALSO CONTINUE AS A LARGE UPPER-LEVEL HIGH PRESSURE SYSTEM REMAINS
ENTRENCHED OVER OKLAHOMA AND NORTH TEXAS. ALONG WITH LITTLE
HOPE FOR RAIN...MOST DAYS WILL HAVE VERY FEW CLOUDS.
MINIMIZE YOUR OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES DURING THE HEAT OF THE DAY AND
DRINK PLENTY OF WATER. KEEP CHECKS ON THE ELDERLY AND CHILDREN...AS
THEY ARE MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO HEAT RELATED ILLNESSES. DO NOT LEAVE
CHILDREN OR PETS IN AUTOMOBILES FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME...DAY OR
NIGHT. ALSO...MAKE SURE PETS AND LIVESTOCK HAVE PLENTY OF WATER TO
DRINK.
You guys need to head to Hawaii to chase Hurricane Fossie. Looks pretty crazy by the looks of it.
Good-sized hail in that cell up in NE North Dakota
Jim - wow, nice clip! Looks like an explosion all right
Yea it doesent look like the storms in ND are making much southward progress along the front.
Tornado warning just popped up on that cell in NE North Dakota!
Right as I was watching it, too... cool...
233 PM CDT MON AUG 13 2007
THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN GRAND FORKS HAS ISSUED A
* TORNADO WARNING FOR...
WESTERN GRAND FORKS COUNTY IN NORTHEAST NORTH DAKOTA...
NORTHEASTERN NELSON COUNTY IN NORTHEAST NORTH DAKOTA...
SOUTHWESTERN WALSH COUNTY IN NORTHEAST NORTH DAKOTA...
* UNTIL 330 PM CDT
* AT 229 PM CDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO 6 MILES
NORTHWEST OF WHITMAN...OR 31 MILES EAST OF DEVILS LAKE...MOVING TO
THE SOUTHEAST AT 35 MPH.
* THE TORNADO WILL BE NEAR...
WHITMAN AT 240 PM CDT...
DAHLEN AT 250 PM CDT...
7 MILES NORTHEAST OF PETERSBURG AT 255 PM CDT...
NIAGARA AT 305 PM CDT...
I HOPE YOU"RE SATISFIED REED. I wanted go. I guess I'm just going to have to go solo from now on.
I just read the new MD for Western/Central MN and Eastern ND... I dont think Ive ever heard such uncertainty in an MD before, almost like they have no idea whats going to happnen :)
Hey everyone, how's it going out there? I see once again that I am not in the right place to catch any tornado action, but that's ok. I think I have enough "tornado meat in my freezer, and need to go buy my hurricane hunting license". (Thanks Joe Surfer)
BTW, that clip from Jim is awesome!
that cell could usher in some needed moisture in MN.
REED MDT RISK FOR SVR WEATHER TORNADOES 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, the heat wave continues here for the rest of the week, without any relief until possibly Thursday. It's a good week to find some indoor activities, like banging on the drums :D
I just saw that tornado warned storm that Joe posted earlier, on SwiftWX, and it's pretty nice. The hook is noticeable, and I bet on the ground it's becoming rain-wrapped :( Not good for chasers.
THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN GRAND FORKS HAS ISSUED A
* TORNADO WARNING FOR...
WESTERN GRAND FORKS COUNTY IN NORTHEAST NORTH DAKOTA...
NORTHEASTERN NELSON COUNTY IN NORTHEAST NORTH DAKOTA...
SOUTHWESTERN WALSH COUNTY IN NORTHEAST NORTH DAKOTA...
* UNTIL 330 PM CDT
* AT 229 PM CDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO 6 MILES
NORTHWEST OF WHITMAN...OR 31 MILES EAST OF DEVILS LAKE...MOVING TO
THE SOUTHEAST AT 35 MPH.
I wish I had a drum set. It was 105 here yesterday, 102 so far today. :=-K (That's my "face melting" smiley ... okay, I'll never do that again.)
And still, we've gotta wait a while to see if anything starts to really get going in MN ... what to do, what to do ... too bad I can't knit.
I wonder if that storm initiated because of the moisture off of devils lake?
I was just happy to see the warning pop up as I was zoomed in on that cell. I had been noticing a bit of a couplet in it, and sort of a kind of an almost hook, but didn't want to say anything so I wouldn't look stupid.
I saw a couplet too, Joe. It wasn't nearly as nice as the one on there now though - check that hook out! 8-O
Go ahead and say anything - Haven't you noticed that some people look stupid on here all the time?! :-D
SPC just upgraded to 10% Tornado
New SPC outlook has Tornado prob up to 10% over SW Minn. This appears to be the direction I may be heading shortly... still not sure yet though.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reed you should have come! Check out the 10% tornado box they just put up and the new outlook...
Someone is going to get a major hose in southwest MN tonight.
Anoka conditions:
84 degrees, 68 dew, light southeast winds, overcast. I think the main action is going to go south and west of here.
I still say you guys need to come tour Saskatchewan ;)..it seems like everyday theres no forecast or chance of storms there is some ha. Yesterday was 0%, yet Yorkton got hit with a cloud that split to 3 and circled 3 times (including twice some brief pea-sized hail)..then this morning it just missed us again (nothing more than thunder)
Here's a few pics from last night:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/num1habfan/IMG_9851.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/num1habfan/IMG_9853.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/num1habfan/IMG_9867.jpg
Heidi, to my inexperienced eyeballs, that cell is not staying discrete nor dominating its local area so there is little chance of a tube popping out at this time... that is my completely sub-amateurish opinion, worth less than the electrons it's printed on :)
yeah just showed my dad but he dos'nt care!
Well our little tornado warning went away, but it was fun while it lasted
Looks like there was some good hail with that storm.
Yeah, there was, at one time it was up to 4"
I just downloaded gr level3 like 30 minutes ago stil trying to figure it out.
ya the tornado warning is gone but still some severe thunderstorm warning out.
Looks like it might produce again. If I am reading this thing properly.
Yeah, another warning just came up for the same cell
340 PM CDT MON AUG 13 2007
THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN GRAND FORKS HAS ISSUED A
* TORNADO WARNING FOR...
SOUTH CENTRAL GRAND FORKS COUNTY IN NORTHEAST NORTH DAKOTA...
NORTHEASTERN STEELE COUNTY IN SOUTHEAST NORTH DAKOTA...
NORTHERN TRAILL COUNTY IN SOUTHEAST NORTH DAKOTA...
* UNTIL 445 PM CDT
* AT 337 PM CDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO 2 MILES
SOUTHWEST OF LARIMORE...OR 27 MILES WEST OF GRAND FORKS...MOVING TO
THE SOUTHEAST AT 35 MPH. A ROTATING WALL CLOUD HAS BEEN SIGHTED 3
MILES SOUTH OF LARIMORE.
* THE TORNADO WILL BE NEAR...
KEMPTON AT 345 PM CDT...
NORTHWOOD AT 350 PM CDT...
8 MILES SOUTHWEST OF HOLMES AT 400 PM CDT...
HATTON AT 405 PM CDT...
Strike u could be right tornado warning back out in the same area.
Joe i might be wrong but it looks like theres a hook on the cell i could be wrong
BIG herracain going tword howii
Hard to say... I'm too new at this to tell... it could be the warning was issued only because somebody phoned in that "rotating wall cloud" so it's dependent on one person's opinion
Hey Reed or anybody, on cells that move in a South or Southeast direction is it most likely to find a tornado on the Southwest corner or can they develop on the Northwest corner of the cell as well?
Caleb not to be harsh on ha but its "hurricane" "toward" "Hawaii"
Just blame it on Reed for not adding a spell checker tool to the blog
LOL
looks like the cell is starting to disapate some.
I can't seem to find any couplet of note on that sucker..
ooops sorry Matt just a little mistake
Hey no worries kid like Rene said we can blame Reed because there is no spell check
And hey we all make mistakes
yeah... Why are we off subject?
Travis, are you on the road? Do you need nowcasting?
Let me know i'd be glad to help.
Ya caleb that was my bad
Hey guys... Are any of you watching the new TD out in the atlantic!!?!! It is expected to develop into a tropical storm within the next 24 hours! Or so says the NHC.
And yeah Reed the SPC has issued a 10% box for tornadoes!! This could be VERY interesting lol. I hope that TD #4 becomes a hurricane and moves into the gulf cuz it could have some sort of influence on my weather....Anything but this sweltering heat!! I'm MELTING!!!!
Hey Andrew, Im here in Plymouth just waiting a little bit longer to try and see how this is going to play out.. I will most likely be heading west within the next hour or so... probably on Highway 7 towards the Hutchinson area or maybe furthur towards Granate Falls. Do you have an email address Andrew?
Jeez, did it warm up fast here. Now its 90 with a 77F dew point. When it it does fire off it really be I have a feeling.
No im watching the cell near grand forks right now its a tornado warned storm but its satrting to disapate and weaken some. Good hail at one time was 4"
Hey travis, the west side of the cell is the place to be with a southeasterly mover...the rain should be sheared off to the northeast.
Cap holding in MN so far!!
I've got some amazing water spout pictures I'll post this evening once the severe weather threat dies down.
srprigge@yahoo.com
I would head west NOW if I were you. Wilmar for starters. That way you can go any direction you want from there.
IF you are sure you are up to this lol! Looks like it could get nasty, man.
Unless Reed or anyone else here has any better ideas.
Ah, there's Reed.
Maybe he would be willing to nowcast for you if you went out. Be a heck of a lot better option than me, lol. Just be aware this could bust too if the cap holds.
Oh... Yeah that storm is weakening somewhat but it definently had a good looking couplet at one point.. But you guys should be focusing your attention to the tropics cuz its really heating up out there.. Reed if you can hear me I think there is going to be a hurricane Dean in the gulf in the next week or so!!
* TORNADO WARNING FOR...
SOUTH CENTRAL GRAND FORKS COUNTY IN NORTHEAST NORTH DAKOTA...
NORTHEASTERN STEELE COUNTY IN SOUTHEAST NORTH DAKOTA...
NORTHERN TRAILL COUNTY IN SOUTHEAST NORTH DAKOTA...
* UNTIL 445 PM CDT
* AT 337 PM CDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO 2 MILES
SOUTHWEST OF LARIMORE...OR 27 MILES WEST OF GRAND FORKS...MOVING TO
THE SOUTHEAST AT 35 MPH. A ROTATING WALL CLOUD HAS BEEN SIGHTED 3
MILES SOUTH OF LARIMORE
Personally, I've learned to not get too excited about hurricanes until they get much closer in... that many days away... but then again I'm not buying plane tickets to get into position, lol
No tornado reports yet on the SPC.
Tornado warning continues for Grand Fork!!!
...A TORNADO WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 445 PM CDT FOR
SOUTHEASTERN GRAND FORKS AND NORTHEASTERN TRAILL COUNTIES...
AT 419 PM CDT...WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A SEVERE
THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO. THE TORNADO WAS LOCATED
4 MILES SOUTHEAST OF HOLMES...OR 18 MILES SOUTHWEST OF GRAND FORKS...
MOVING TO THE SOUTHEAST AT 35 MPH.
* THE TORNADO WILL BE NEAR...
BUXTON BY 430 PM CDT...
CUMMINGS BY 435 PM CDT...
IF YOU ARE IN THE PATH OF THIS TORNADO ABANDON CARS AND MOBILE HOMES
FOR A STURDY BUILDING.
A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 1000 PM CDT
MONDAY EVENING FOR NORTHWESTERN MINNESOTA.
nope!! i bet there will be some in the next few hours!!!
Hey everyone, check out the gravity waves on visible satellite in southeast North Dakota. I don't know what they mean, but they are cool.
From what im seeing the storms is going to miss Grand forks to the south but they most likely got some rain maybe some lightning but Grand forks just barely miss a direct hit from this cell
Hey Brady, looks like you are in line to get some precip and t-storms in Duluth later tonight..
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE EASTERN ND/GRAND FORKS ND
427 PM CDT MON AUG 13 2007
THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN GRAND FORKS HAS ISSUED A
* SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING FOR...
NORTHERN NORMAN COUNTY IN NORTHWEST MINNESOTA...
SOUTH CENTRAL POLK COUNTY IN NORTHWEST MINNESOTA...
* UNTIL 530 PM CDT
* AT 423 PM CDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A
LINE OF SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS CAPABLE OF PRODUCING QUARTER SIZE
HAIL...AND DAMAGING WINDS IN EXCESS OF 60 MPH. THESE STORMS WERE
LOCATED ALONG A LINE EXTENDING FROM NEAR BYGLAND TO 2 MILES WEST OF
REYNOLDS...MOVING TO THE SOUTHEAST AT 35 MPH. THE STORMS HAVE A
HISTORY OF PRODUCING GOLF BALL SIZE HAIL.
* SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS WILL BE NEAR...
ELDRED AND CLIMAX AT 440 PM CDT...
NIELSVILLE AT 450 PM CDT...
GREENVIEW...MELVIN AND BELTRAMI AT 500 PM CDT...
LOCKHART AND HADLER AT 510 PM CDT...
REMEMBER SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS CAN AND OCCASIONALLY DO PRODUCE
TORNADOES WITH LITTLE OR NO ADVANCE WARNING.
Hey Caleb and Matt... Just because there is a tornado warning doesn't mean the storm is producing a tornado... It means that either there is rotation w/ the storm or there is a "dopolar indicated tornado"...
Guys I'm not trying to bust anyones bubbles but this hype over this event could be a bust! Like Reed mentioned the CAP is holding very strong right now.. And the Wrf models are not predicting anything major till after dark and storms will likely congeal int a massive MCS.
Ya zack i know that im not dumb.
Oh I think if I head out that way I will run into something... the only question is will it be a Tornadic Supercell at 7pm or a massive MCS at 10pm...
Nobody said you were dumb Matt geez..... I'm just irritated by everyone saying OMG a tornado warning its gonna be huge Reed bla bla bla!!! (calms down) Anyway Travis your more than likely gonna run into a MCS lol.
u say everyone ut u single me and caleb out. thanks alot and i never go Reed Reed look theres a tornado warning so ya dont single me out when u say everybody.
What is the clue when the cap STOPS holding? Is it the sudden piling up of a visible storm on the radar, or is there a sooner clue... anyone?
Zach go sit in front of a cold AC. You're kind of easily irritated if someone getting excited about a tornado/warning gets on your nerves. Maybe if Reed gets sick of it he'll tell people to settle down, this is his site. And if it's too irritating for you, no one said you have to read the posts.
ur pushing it Matt..lol.
you too Andrew
No clue Joe, i was wondering how do u see cap levels and what is a good cap level for produce storms???
Hey im calm. Im been trying over the past 2 or 3 years to really control my temper.
And now im going to sit back and enjoy my chicken burger that my mom just made for me.
Look guys I'm sorry if I offended anyone.... I just got done mowing a lawn and I'm on the verge of a heat stroke and none of you guys are irritating me.. Just a little jelous I guess. Here in oklahoma we have seen nothing but sun sun dry dry and so on. I guess I need to go find a Cold ac.
You need more then a cold ac u need snow and frezzing temps hhahaha lol. just kidding zack
Zach, sorry for getting po'ed. My bad. Lets just move on and watch for storms tonight. Bad day at work...
Joe here is the RUC forecast for 2100 Z, which would be 4pm. For Lid Strength Index, which I am assuming means the Cap.
http://beta.wxcaster.com/models/RUC/CENTRAL_RUC236_ATMOS_LSI_03HR.gif
Also MLCINH- which is mid level convective inhibition- I'm assuming that's a Cap too:
http://beta.wxcaster.com/models/RUC/CENTRAL_RUC236_ATMOS_LSI_03HR.gif
Now I just need someone to interpret, lol. I think it shows a pretty strong cap still in place but eroding in southwest MN.
you know that would be nice Matt.... very nice indeed.
Hey im looking foward to the winter also Zack. its been really hot here also but today was nice.
Thanks Andrew. What I was wondering to myself, was, what if I were sitting in a Dairy Queen in Willmar, MN right now, watching my computer screen and waiting for a sign to get out there and start watching stuff. I'm assuming it would be when something visually starts building up on radar somewhere... but don't know for sure.
Do you guys see what's going on in Nebraska and SD right now??? If not, take a LOOK!!!!!!!!!!
Joe,
A real chaser with experience would have to answer that one. Me, I would just chase towering cumulus all over the map and be totally out of position when something finally did fire.
Oh my, Neb and SD getting in on the act. THat's a nice couplet on the storm down in Nebraska.
Tripp Co. SD has echo tops to 70K, from North Platte radar. I think this is the first time I've seen 70K "in range" of the radar.
It was 103 degrees here today. *gag*
Is that something popping up just west of Minneapolis?
Cherry Co. NE has gate-to-gate on SRV1 ... and what's an ETVS? It's the TVS that's outlined in pink. I've never seen that before???
Yes Joe, I can sorta see it. It's struggling but really is acting like it wants to do something.
I would call it "agitated" lol. There's also a new return near Alexandria that just got my attention.
I feel it necessary to mention that Nebraska is NOT IN THE SLIGHT RISK area!!!!????
Heidi Nebraska is just plain weird, lol. They get storms all the time that defy all attempts to predict them.
That thing by Alexandria, whatever it is, has been stationary for quite a while
So does anyone know what the difference between a TVS and an ETVS is? Can you guys see them on your GR? or is mine PSYCHO? :-D
Hey Heidi no im seeing the same thing and also have no clue what it is
* ETVS – "Elevated Tornado Vortex Signature" – Circulation does not extend all the way to the lowest tilt on radar with an ETVS, but is strong among the other tilts. An ETVS should be monitored closely for development into a TVS.
* TVS – If a TVS is identified by radar, a tornado is a good possibility, because circulation has been detected through the lowest possible tilt. However, since the radar beam does not pan all the way down to the surface, there is no way to guarantee this. Listen to local media to find out more information or see if storm spotters have confirmed the feature.
HAHAHA Joe! Made you read the GR manual for us (okay, ME!)
Again, your fact checking at work... impressive. :-D
Pretty good storm in Cherry Co. NE. Wooo, I think im starting to figure out GR3 a lil bit.
I'm liking this virtual chasing... great practice for the real thing. I'm still pretending I'm in that Dairy Queen, waiting for a signal to get out there.
I hope Reed doesn't mind us using this blog to edjumacate ourselfs..
That small storm by Alexandria, MN that Andrew spotted is starting to put down some small hail, fwiw
Wish I had a Dairy Queen to do that at. lol To far from me to even pretend at being one. Interesting a couple storms have popped up and gone severe east of me just east of Morristown, TN maybe I may get one today.
*correction, POH = 40% so I guess that doesn't necessarily mean any is falling yet
Ya Joe isnt virtual; chasing just so much fun. hahaha not really
And im picture a HUGE WEDGE in front of me right now. Man that would be awesome
How high up is the cap, in feet, does anybody know? Is it correct to assume that if we see something with a "top" above the cap that is in place that it has burst through and is worth watching? Or is that a stupid question.
no clue Joe not at all.
Were did everybody go???????
new blog entry... time to pick up our lawn chairs and move to the next blog entry
im on my way Joe lol